The routine and sleep thread

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Postby Steph Pet! » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:32 pm

Maybe it is just her pet....it's still early days for her....with my two u see I've always put them down in their cot upstairs as per night time and they both have had fairly strict routines too so I know exactly what time they nap everyday....

If she's sleeping ok at night then I'd not worry hun....she'd let u know if she wasn't getting enough....my two have disturbed nights if they don't sleep enough in the day so I knew how strict i had to be getting them to sleep for my own sanity!
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Postby Kasha » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:39 pm

I love my routine too! Caoimhe thrived on it, tho its not easy establishing a strict routine as i've breastfed both on ddemand, and obviously Teaghan is a frequent feeder in the day! I have had a bedtime routine with her for a while tho, and i am starting to predict her morning nap more now so maybe it'll settle as she getts abit older.
My only concern is that she gets really nazzy in the day and you can tell she needs to sleep she just won't lol. Still 3 30 min naps today so better than normal lol
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Postby anne » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:09 pm

The book which really helped me was Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child and the author said that initially some children are just short nappers and things start to settle around 4 months. My 2 were both like that. With Thomas it was normal to get 3 * 30 mins naps in the day until he was older. Like Teaghan he would only sleep longer in the car or being pushed around in the pram. The baby weight came off quick with him as I did so much walking. Alex was a bit better, but things only really improved when he got to about 6 months and now he has 2 longer naps.

The book says that routines only really start to develop at 4 months, but you should try and aim for a nap about 9.00, then one at 12-13ish and and another about 16.00. It's a nightmare not knowing when they'll need to sleep until then, I remember well!

The other thing I really found true for my 2 is that the more sleep they get, the more sleep they need and get so once it clicked they really started sleeping more.

Good luck!
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Postby Kasha » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:23 pm

Thanks anne that was realy helpful :)
As it happens she is heading for naps around about 9, 1 and 5 at the moment. They just dont last very long :)
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Postby Trying » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:37 pm

Oh girls! I suck at being a routine mum, we suck at getting Daniel to sleep. I'm in a million minds what to do, wondering when I should call in SuperNanny to sort us out!!

You may have seen before about me breastfeeding to sleep. Well let me confess all our sins under one roof!!

1) We cosleep, have been for a long time, we have a cot with a side removed on the side of our bed, which D rarely sleeps in, as he often snuggles into me!
2) D is either breastfed or rocked to sleep now!! Used to be just b/f, however when we tried to get him off b/fing to sleep he got attached to the rocking.
3) Now, ater about 1-2hrs of trying to get him to sleep, we bring him back downstairs to us because life if just miserable if for the short few hours we get to see each other a day/night one of us spends it in a darkened room with a screaming child.
4) Nightwakes/stirs - As a result of the co-sleeping I breasfteed D back off. This can start anytimme from 8pm and go hourly until about 11/12 when we're in bed with him, then he settles better an will go until about 5/6am.
5) D has got very attached to having me and only me soothing (when I'm lukcy) to sleep and really screams when DH does it.

Our bedtime routine is: between 5 & 6pm (dinner), Bath, Story, Breastfeed (sometimes he falls asleep) with White noise in background and then if not asleep rock in a glider chair with mobile music playing. - This is NEVER a guaranteed success. Where the finer details are - The breastfeed takes place in our room & I feed him in the lying down position. So if he does fall asleep he doesn't have to be moved.

D's own Cotbed in his room is now on the lowest setting, and as I'm a shortarse I can't put him in it with him lying down as I jsut can't seem to reach the mattress with out "dropping" him down, which poor little guy makes him nervous (as it would!) or wake up startled.
As a result of this daytime naps I can rock him to sleep (sometimes!) and then put him back in our room.

We want to put him in his own room and would love him to be sleepy and placed in bed and fall asleep. But that just sounds like a miracle waiting to happen.
I know we've got a lot of work to do, as he just seems be learnign one association from another. But at the moment there's quite a bit of stress lurking around our household. Me and DH are solid, but his work has just gone into administration and a new company has been set up so we're obviously lucky that he's still employed and on the same salary so we can maintain me being a SAHM, but what it means is DH is out of the house around 6-6 everyday Mon-Sat. So we only have one day a week together as a familiy, of which we quite often have to spend visiting or entertaining DH's dad as he's almost 70, on his own, and has an illness that can make him really miserable.
I've read Baby Whisperer, Jo Frost & No Cry Solution. And probably am just overwhelmed with "solutions" as well as diagnosing the "problems". he thought of "sleep training" fills us with fear, as it's going to be me, and me alone. We've put it off for various reasons, however now my sister has had her newest baby (I was standby baby sitter for nephew) we do need to tackle. But just not sure how. It is going to have to be me that does it, as DH needs the sleep for the hours and work he's doing, so the only night he can help is a Saturday night! I keep thinking block a couple of weeks out, make no plans so I'm not pressured into what time he naps in the daytime. But as I suffered with depression before we conceive (TTC was the straw that broke the back) I'm worried becuase last time I tried to sort his daytime naps I stopped going out, and was so deflated I thought I was getting PND.

I guess I need to vent and put out what's wrong, I thnak you in advacne for any advice and apologise if I just completely ignore it!! That seems to be my style at the moment!!
Sam
2010 - PMA beats PMT, TTC & The Blues! It worked BFP on 03/04/10!!!
TTC - June 07
Clomid - 3/4 cycles 09 all BFN
TTC #2 - Dec 2011 (met since May 12, and lots of lbs to lose!!)
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/24e4af

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Postby Kasha » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:17 am

First of all i'm sending you huge hugs. Its not easy being a mim is it??
Secondly i would have to say put the books away. If they're not helping you then no point reading them just to confuse you.
The other thing i need to say is contrary to popular belief you're not committing any sins! One thing i will never forgive my sil for is telling me to kick the cot if i put caoimhe in asleep so she woke up. I was told never put a baby in a cot asleep or i would be making a rod for my own back. Utter rubbish and i spent the first 12 months of het life feeling like i was a bad mum. She is now a happy 3 yr old who will go to sleep alone and generally sleeps all night. We have to stay with her sometimes but its not a probkem at all!

I think you need to decide what you want to happen and be consistent with it. He's used to you being there and feels secure with it so you just need to put a routine in that he feels secure with. I know every child is different but in my experience with caoimhe she thrives onknowing whats going to happen

Our routine for caoimhe at Daniel's age was bath story breastfeed bed. We started bedtime at about 6:15-30 and aimed to be getting Caoimhe in her cot by 7. Once upstairs, she doesn't come down. I used to put her in her cot if she fell asleep on boob, if she didn't fall asleep when she finished i gave her a dummy and put her in bed, put the music on and left the room. I did have to go in to settle her sometimes and yep i rocked her to sleep sometimes too. I stopped feeding her at 14 months and instead of the bf i would sit with her til she settled enough to go to bed, sometimes awake sometimes asleep andits a routine we still keep now.

As far as the co-sleeping, i personally don't like it although i have been co sleeping with both my girls on and off through necessity. I am more bothered about teaghan slleping with me but only because i worry about sids. I think if it works for you keep it up. If its not working then you have to stop doing it and the only way is probably to put him in his own room. Lower the cot and maybe get a step so you can reach in to it :) pick the routine you want to happen and stick to it no matter what. It will be really hard for a while but he will get it!

I'm really a routine led person and both my girls are thriving on it really but it doesnt work for everyone so maybe someone else can give you advice on another way,

Lots of love coming to you, its not easy being a mum and its sad that its making you feel so rotten xxx
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Postby Kasha » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:28 am

Btw i put Teaghan in her moses asleep after boob, so i havent changed anything! The only difference is if she wakes up i settle her in her basket, usually just with a hand on her chest or even just holding her hand. But she seems to like that little bit of contact, whereas Caoimhe had to be cuddled back to sleep. She really hasn't suffered for it and neither have we.
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BFP - 7/10/10, sadly miscarried at 6 weeks 15/10/10
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BFP - 18/11/10

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BFP 07/12
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Postby Steph Pet! » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:28 am

Hey Sam...

First of all (((hugs))) being a Mummy is bloody hard work as Helen said....there is no right or wrong way when it comes to kids and what works for one person just won't work at all for another.

Personally I'm a fan of the controlled crying method....we've done it with both boys (more Archie than Harry) and it worked within about 3 nights. Admittedly Harry does have a crutch which I am hoping in time will change...he rarely goes down for a nap without having a bottle first (just the way our routine has worked out!) so when he wakes in the night it's hard to get him to settle sometimes without giving him a bottle....obv cos of Archie I can't do controlled crying at 3am as last thing I need is a whole house awake....!!!

If controlled crying isn't for you my friend had a great method...her little boy wouldn't sleep unless she was there with him holding him so she did it in steps....firstly she'd put him down and put her hand on him...then she's step to just sitting next to him....slowly she got further and further away until she was just outside the door and finally she left him on his own. Takes a bit longer but it worked.....

Sorry I can't be much help....what i can say is the sooner u can nip it in the bud the better as the older they get the longer it takes (((hug)))
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Postby anne » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:12 pm

Hi Sam,
I'm not sure I have much more to add but wanted to send you hugs.
Neither of my boys were ones for just falling asleep and the 2 things that have really helped were routine/consistancy and controlled crying. You basically have to decide how you want things to be and go for it. Children love knowing what's coming next. We have dinner, bath, bottle (for Alex) then bed.
As for controlled crying it was the hardest thing I have ever done but with great success. Both boys took max 3 nights to catch on and we have never looked back. Not everyone's cup of tea, but then neither is a mother so exhausted she can't think straight!
Good luck with whatever you decide. Us verity ladies will be here to hold your hand.
Hugs,
Anne
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Postby Dottywot » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:09 pm

Sam

I can't add too much to what the others have said, my LO has been in the bed with me at times, as my OH works shifts and sometimes it was the only way for us to all get some much needed sleep.

If you are going to try a sleep training method, I would recommend doing it together with your OH, we used it a couple of times and it was 3 nights of awfulness so it was good to do it together!

xx
Diagnosed - 2002
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Postby hannahbanana » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:30 am

Sam, I just wanted to let your know that it's not just you!

Sometimes it helps me to hear others say it as I feel that everybody else's babies sleep 12 hours solid a night! Mine doesn't either!!!

Up until recently she would only breastfeed to sleep/back to sleep if she woke up. It took a little while but I managed to wean her off doing this by stopping the feed just before she was totally out of it, that way she'd fall asleep just in my arms. I did this for a while and she eventually started dropping off just with a cuddle. then with my hand on her and I can now put her down in her cot and sit nearby till she falls asleep. Hoping that eventually i'll get out the room! It's a long process and has taken about a month to get to this point.

She is starting to sleep much better now, although I think this has something to do with the fact I've cut the bfeeding right down to just a morning feed, the rest are bottles, so she doesn't seem as attatched to the boob, she's content with just cuddles, which is actually lovely.

If you want him to sleep in his own cot in his room could i suggest something a bit odd? DD won't go down for a nap for DH the same way she will for me so if I have to go out, the only thing he's found that works is to lie down in her cotbed with her! Just thinking that it might get him used to sleeping in his bed but with the comfort and familiarity of you being there. Maybe you could then move to sitting by the cot then do gradual withdraw method out the room?


Just don't want you to feel alone. I don't post much anymore but so often I read your posts and they sound so familiar! I think we might be the same sort of mum!


Anyhoo, feel free to ignore my ramblings, just thought I'd share what we did as controlled crying just didn't work for us - it does work for lots though, although i think that maybe going cold turkey from sleeping with you and bfeeding in the night might be too much to tackle at once.


Lots of love, Han x
TTC number 1 since April 2009...
Agnus Castus and lots of PMA worked!
BFP 22nd May 2010!
Grace was born 6th February 2011
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Postby Trying » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:13 pm

Thanks girls will try an digest some of your thoughts and experience. Not easy is certainly the expression!

I'm in so many minds as to what to do. We really need to have some time together to properly think over and discuss what we are goign to do and then implement something.

We were hoping to last night, but after getting him down at 7pm, after a bath and dinner (adults) he was back up at 9pm until he did a huge poo at 11pm!!

Hannah - the getting in his bed was my last idea. We've ordered a bed guard so we can try that! :)
Sam
2010 - PMA beats PMT, TTC & The Blues! It worked BFP on 03/04/10!!!
TTC - June 07
Clomid - 3/4 cycles 09 all BFN
TTC #2 - Dec 2011 (met since May 12, and lots of lbs to lose!!)
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/24e4af

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Postby Kasha » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:01 pm

Sam i have to admit i often get into bed with Caoimhe at night now :) after story and lights off, i lie on her bed and we have a chat about what we're done during the day. I used to sit on a bean bag at the side of her bed but that wasn't possible when i was pregnant so i started lying on her bed instead.
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Postby Steph Pet! » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:15 am

Need a bit of advice on what i can try and do as I'm pulling my hair out here....Hubby is being as helpful as a chocolate teapot (when he is actually here!) so support is zero too.....

I'm having a really hard time with Archie at the moment and him sleeping. Long and short I think is he needs to have the odd daytime nap but is point blank refusing....

Archie has always been a nightmare when it comes to sleep...if he doesn't get enough (needs at least 12 hours) he doesn't sleep as well at night...never has done....so when he dropped his daytime sleep (as soon as I took his dummy away) I knew I'd be in for a bad run but at the moment it seems to be worse than ever. He waking between 4-5.30am every day...screaming....and I mean screaming the place down and waking us and Harry up meaning I've got a baby screaming, pre-schooler screaming and tantruming and I'm exhausted from then having two overtired whingy kids all day. The less sleep he gets and the more tired he is, the earlier he wakes up so we're stuck in this vicious circle involving really bad behaviour and screaming...when he gets sleep he is a lovely mannered well behaved boy who is lots of fun...I can only get him to sleep in the car these days but driving around with both of them in the car for an hour or so everyday is expensive (!!) and just a pain in the arse when I'm tired. I can't stop the car or bring them home cos Harry is a light sleeper and wakes as soon as the car stops and won't go back off (sleeps best in his cot)...Arch on the other hand I could swing round my head when he's asleep so the problem is getting him to sleep and settling him if he wakes at 4am.

I find myself reading FB and talking to friends and getting really p*&$ed off that their kids seem to sleep really well and keep asking wtf have I done wrong with mine....they've both got really good routines....always have done. Archie's sleeping has only been a nightmare since we took his dummy away....I've tried getting him attached to other comforters but he's not having any of it....but al be damned if I'm bringing his dummy back when it's been gone for 6 months! Harry is a great sleeper these days (most nights) if it wasn't for Archie waking him up so early......

Does anyone have any words of wisdom??? Willing to try anything...!!
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Postby Kasha » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:16 pm

No words of wisdom, just a big hug x
You havent done anything wrong, its just the way archie is. My friend has a boy about the same age as Archie and he's always given her problems sleeping too x

Hope you get an answer hun x
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BFP - 7/10/10, sadly miscarried at 6 weeks 15/10/10
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