Advice re criminal sentencing & working for NHS

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Postby Verve » Thu May 19, 2011 6:14 pm

I work within the criminal justice system. If he has no previous then he is likely to get a community order providing that he pleads guilty. x
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Postby TryingAgain » Sat May 28, 2011 7:07 pm

Well thought I would update you.

The lovely police woman who re-assured me that she would be there when he had to meet his bail to 'vouch for him' and request a caution wasn't even on duty, and my husband has been charged with racially aggravated assault and has to go to Mags Court on 9th June.

I am now signed off with stress, and I am convinced that he will get the sack when he tells them. On the Legal Aid forms we have been given to complete our Solicitor has written on that there is a risk of custody :( :shock:

Don't know what to do for the best, in the police interview he didn't tell them that he punched him, he said he grabbed hiom first and it was self defence, and there are no other witnesses so he could plead not guilty, but that means it will be hanging over us even longer and we would all have to go to court, or he could plead guilty but I am worried to death he could go to prison. Dont know what to do.

Had my house valued and worth a lot more than we bought it for but don't think my nerves could stand moving house. Had the fence delivered today and straight on que that prat was out watching the delivery men, not going to do it until he is at work so there can be no confrontation.

God what a mess, in a way I wish my husband had battered him and really hurt him because it seems as though he is going to get the punishment for it anyway :( Keep you posted x
* TTC since 2006
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Postby Kasha » Sat May 28, 2011 8:12 pm

Hun i'm really sorry things are turning out like this for you. It is shocking that they have turned it into a race row when that has nothing tondo with it.
I really hope that it has a good outcome for you x
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Postby Trying » Sat May 28, 2011 8:56 pm

Hun -I do feel for you and I'm so sorry that the police officer lived up to my expectations - they really are horrendous at this type of thing, and I do think a bit of a liability when they give people these false hopes about how a case will/won't progress.

Re the solicitors note on the legal aid form (risk of custody), please hun treat this as the form you sign before surgery. They have to write risk of custody because of the offence could attract a 6 month sentence. This type of sentencing would only be likely if you went to trial and it came out to be a rather vicious and spiteful attack (perhaps even planned) and your husbabnd pleaded not guilty all the way etc.. And also if he were charged with other offences alongside. So please try and read it just as an advisory of a worse case scenario etc..

What has the defence solicitor said about the case? He should soon be provided with case papers from the police/CPS which will include the case summary (as written by the police officer) and perhaps a few of the statements made. He/She should be able to advise you about whether you should plead guilty, not guilty or go for a newton trial to argue the facts.

Really hope you get through this all, x x
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Postby Hols969 » Sun May 29, 2011 6:44 pm

Let us know how thing go. Im not surprised you are signed off. xx
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Postby TryingAgain » Sun May 29, 2011 9:25 pm

Thankyou for your well wishes.

I haven't spoken to the Solicitor my husband went alone to the police station and I don't think I will be going to Court either as I know I sound pathetic but my nerves are just not up to it. My Dad and brother will probably go with him.

The Solicitor hasn't seen anything yet, and only has our account and based on that she said that on the day she will ask the CPS if they will agree to drop it down to a section 5 which I gather is just like an argument and that he should plead guilty to that. but I can't see they will when he is injured (cut lip).

If not she mentioned going to a Newton Hearing but the reason I don't want to do that it that my neighbour is so full of shit I just think he will come out with a load on the day and make it look even worse then it is. plus I just don't think we will go down well in Court on the day, my husband dad and brother are all the most decent men you will ever meet, but they are all quite muscular and have skin heads and tattoos and I just think a Judge will look at them and then look at my balding fat asian middle aged neighbour and think we are a family of thugs and he is an innocent victim. He won't know that my family would do anything to help anybody but we have been pushed to the brink by this sad nasty jealous man next door. We are a very close family and he is totally jealous of this as he sits on his own all day every day.

I just think he has to plead guilty and get the plea of mitigation as strong as it possibly can be, explain the circumstances of the build up to it, explain that my neighbours actions have caused me great stress, and that this was a one off which he started, and since then we have paid to have the entire garden fenced off. She didn't give him any indication of what sentence he could get. i just fear the worse as the word racial just takes it to a whole other level. I read in my local paper the court bit where people are given an £80 fine for assault and they also get a restraining order, I think what they did must have been far worse to have a restraining order but I just fear he will be given a prison sentence because he admitted using that word in the argument.

Will obviously let you know the outcome, and whether we get any further advice in the meantime x
* TTC since 2006
* no response to met, clomid, injections
* IVF, 3 eggs, 1 embryo, beautiful daughter born 2008
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Postby Debbs » Mon May 30, 2011 7:30 pm

Good luck hun. What an awful situation to be put through for all of you.

Debbs
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Postby TryingAgain » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:41 pm

Well thought I would let you know how we got on.

We went to the Mags Court this morning, our neighbour was there too, hoping he would see my husband get sent to jail! :twisted:

We had the duty solicitor as were told we could not get legal aid, the whole thing was a bit of a joke to be honest, they didn't know who we were, what had happened, and it was the biggest load of scum bags in the waiting room you have ever seen. The Duty Solicitor said it was far too serious to be dealt with today and that to expect it to be adjourned for a pre sentence report. I asked that he request it was dealt with on the day and he did.

I sat next to by neighbour when I got in there, they agreed to deal with it on the day and we were ordered to pay our neighbour 100 pound compensation- yes thats right- we had to compensate him for giving us a load of abuse and hassle and him insulting all of my family and swearing in front of my daughter! and my husband has been ordered to do 100 hours community service, he has to do it within 12 months, though I dont know how this is possible as on average he works around 60 hours per week but he has to go to a meeting next week to sort it out.

On one hand I am relieved it is over with, but on the other I just think that the whole system is a joke. The man in front of us was obviously a druggy, looked homeless, was charged with various shoplifting offences, and they decided to deduct a fiver a week from his bennefits- what is the point?

Hubby has told his boss, she was very understanding, but she said she didn't know 'the procedure' so she is going to come back to him on it. As long as he keeps his job, we have come out of it OK.

Anyway thats done and dusted, when we came out my father in law said to my neighbour 'are you happy now?' and they exhcnaged a few words, wish he hadn't spoken to him but there you go its done now. I can hold my head up, at the end of the day there is one man sitting with his loving family and one sad lonely man sitting on his own with no friends or family. I know who I would rather be.

Lets just hope that is the end of it . . . .
* TTC since 2006
* no response to met, clomid, injections
* IVF, 3 eggs, 1 embryo, beautiful daughter born 2008
* IVF #2 Nov 2012, 5 eggs, 1 embryo, BFN
* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Postby Hols969 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:57 pm

We all know that life isnt fair though dont we - it does drive me mad all this but Im relieved for you that it is over. It should never have been a race thing anyway. Im not surprised your FiL said something, he can get away with it - I think I would have been livid as its all so unfair.

As you say he is a sad lonely man, and wont be winning any friendships this way.
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Postby Kasha » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:43 pm

At least it's done with, like you say, and at least he didn't get a custodial sentence. Seems grossly unfair thst he's been punished and the guy who started it all, caused it all, goT away with nothing. Unfortunately this is just the way this country is at the moment. Just need to be careful now that nothing else happens because they will take this into account.
I hope your hubby doesn't lose his job or get punished at work because of it. Fingers crossed you can put all this behind you now.
Sending lots of love x
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Postby Debbs » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:37 am

I can hold my head up, at the end of the day there is one man sitting with his loving family and one sad lonely man sitting on his own with no friends or family. I know who I would rather be.


Agree with you on this one, I know who I would rather be as well.

Take care, hope his boss comes back with good news for you.

Debbs
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Postby Busy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:18 pm

Am glad this has worked out for you and hope your husband's job is safe.

But I do find the following statement pretty offensive / hard to read in this context:
"The man in front of us was obviously a druggy, looked homeless, was charged with various shoplifting offences, and they decided to deduct a fiver a week from his bennefits- what is the point?"
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Postby Debbs » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:25 pm

Hiya ladies.

I think what TryingAgain was saying was that continuing offenders seem to get away with things simply because their lives aren't completely on track.

Hope everyone is having a nice wkend.

Debbs
xxxxx
TTC since May/06
Sept/09 ICSI#1 Chem preg
Jan/10 FET#1 BFN
June/10 ICSI#2 BFN
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Postby Trying » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Hun, glad you can now start to put it behind you now.

If your neighbour does continue to harrass you, please remember to call the police - they are obliged to record your concerns and if (obviously I know we hope nothing else happens) someting does flare up again it'll give the police officer a more concrete background to the situation.

TryingAgain wrote:The man in front of us was obviously a druggy, looked homeless, was charged with various shoplifting offences, and they decided to deduct a fiver a week from his bennefits- what is the point?
- In reference to that, it is sad that addicts are familiar faces in the Mags Court, and they are constantly recycled in the system either by Probation not having enough spaces on drug rehabiliation courses etc.. But sadly a prison sentence probably wouldn't fix the problem either. I know in my old office we'd constantly debate over what is the ideal solution for the regular faces at Court.
Sam
2010 - PMA beats PMT, TTC & The Blues! It worked BFP on 03/04/10!!!
TTC - June 07
Clomid - 3/4 cycles 09 all BFN
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Postby TryingAgain » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:19 pm

The point I was trying to make about the druggy having a fiver deducted from his bennefits, is that the whole 'justice system' is a joke. Morally I think it is far worse to repeatedly steal then to retaliate to somebody who has insulted and upset your entire family. We make the choice to go to work and pay our way and so we are punished by having to 'compensate the victim' one hundred pounds and have to spend precious family time on community service. My husband works over 60 hours per week and now has to lose time with his family to make up this community time. That person in court who does not work and who repeatedly steals to fund his drug and alcohol addiction could have used his time more productivley with a community order. It just angered me that we had to declare all of our earnings/ savings etc and he just said 'housing benneift, child bennefit, income support'. It is simply my opinion that a community order would have been more 'justified' for him.

Well, you wont believe what has happened now, the police came here again last night saying that my neighbour came out of the court and went straight into the police station next door and complained that my FIL called him a 'paki' in Court.

My FIL just said 'are you happy now?', he didn't say anything else, he is 74, has worked all of his life in the army and was just there because he was worried about his son. The police came here and they just laughed at him, they said they have to investigate it because they have made the allegation. I am just praying that it was caught on CCTV at the Court, if so they are going to have him for wasting police time. Apparently he has made a complaint to the police saying they have not taken it seriously enough, they are complaining to the CPS that my dad and brother were not charged and they also complained to the Mag on the day that the sentence was not enough. They were escorted out of the Court after we left.

I was very upset yesterday but glad he has shown his true colours to the police, they went to try and talk him round and he went mad at them and threw them out of his house, he then proceeded to shout and swear at the police in the street in front of everybody.

I just hope the CCTV is the end of it, and then they speak to them and tell them to get on with their lives. moving house is not an option because I have spent a lot of money on the house and wouldn't get it back in this market.

DH finds out about his job on Tuesday...let you know. . . .
* TTC since 2006
* no response to met, clomid, injections
* IVF, 3 eggs, 1 embryo, beautiful daughter born 2008
* IVF #2 Nov 2012, 5 eggs, 1 embryo, BFN
* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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